Link for the CAFFL losers

[waxx]

1.) Trust me when I tell you your knowledge may allow you a fraction of an advantage in the Auction at best.

2.) I wrote the fucking rules for our league yet is hasn't benefitted me any (I'm still trophyless after 10 years).

3.) Quit being a drama queen,

J

1.) (4325 total words in this text) - the WWFFL rules... I know them... I understand them... I have seen and listened to them in action... the fraction of my advantage is probably a rather large fraction...

2.) You wrote the rules when there were no rules and everybody was on the same plane... am I not the sole CAFFL owner who hangs more with WWFFLers than his own, who has attended a handful of auctions, who has sat in for an owner, etc...?? I know this shit isn;t rocket science... but an advantage is an advantage that ethically should not permit me to make this decision on my own...

3.) I can;t help it... I was raised by my mother and my sister...

[hammers]

1.) (4325 total words in this text) - the WWFFL rules... I know them... I understand them... I have seen and listened to them in action... the fraction of my advantage is probably a rather large fraction...

That may be true if all 4325 words were covering completely foreign material. As it is, only a small percentage of our rules differ from your current system. Auction rules, Contract Years and Additional Roster slots being the most notable. Sounds like you're trying to make this out to be more than it is.

2.) You wrote the rules when there were no rules and everybody was on the same plane... am I not the sole CAFFL owner who hangs more with WWFFLers than his own, who has attended a handful of auctions, who has sat in for an owner, etc...?? I know this shit isn;t rocket science...

You might have an advantage over other CAFFL owners if you were Auctioning in the WWFFL since you have experience with those owners and their Auction day strategies. However, like the other CAFFL'ers, you've never Auctioned with one another so I fail to see how you can derive any advantage. Can you predict how high/low Jim, Randy or Frank would be willing to go on a certain player? Without that knowledge, I'm not seeing any advantage.

but an advantage is an advantage that ethically should not permit me to make this decision on my own...

For Christs sake, quit being such a squishy turd. You're the Commish, dammit! The Commish shouldn't be riding the fence waiting for other owners to validate his "oh so delicate" feelings on a subject. This whole Auction/Draft debate has become like "Days of our Lives" with you playing all the dramatic roles. Get it together man.

3.) I can;t help it... I was raised by my mother and my sister...

Ask yourself if your mother or sister would make a good FF Commissioner before deciding to react as they would. Choose an appropriate role model to emulate before making any further "sissyfied" statements.

J

[avengers]

I think my ability to be competitive every year makes it harder for me to say "throw em all back and lets auction!". If anything, I have a lot to lose, because I still feel I have a very strong team, and can likely be 2nd fiddle again...ha! Seriously though, if we do the auction, it needs to be a total throwback, everyone on equal ground going in. I agree with Jason that you know houw auctions work, but won't know how any of us react in an auction. Though you may know the "going rate" on players, the fun of an auction is that the "going rate" will be determined when we draft the players.

I am also confident that no one will bail because you make a decision, as a Commissioner, to switch the rules. The original vote was over 50% in favor, and I think the guys here good people and won't get pissed and quit because of the decision.

Not that this supports my argument that you should just make an executive decision, but I am playing 4 leagues this year, and I am sure I'll give less attention to this league if I fall too far back, and can't really make deals because "next year" is the year we change. I won't tank and start guys on bye, or anything like that, but my interest will diminish if I have a rough year, and I can see my attitude being "screw it, we're just starting over next year anyway." Lets just switch the whole thing this year, deal with any fallout (which there will be very little) and have some fun!

My $.02 anyway

[waxx]

I HAVE been HAMMERED... just brutal... just brutal...

and so happy that as commish... thinking truly of the league and not my selfish intentions as an owner... that I am taking this beating without much help from the owners I am trying to represent...

anywho...

as an owner...

I am in favor of an auction. If we can get it done this year, then great but next year for me will be fine or in five years... I'll be around for a while...

I would prefer we throw em back...

I as well might lose some interest if I start sucking this year... but probably not much less if we were not changing... I just don;t think we have heard from enough owners to make the change this year...

So... instead of the same people saying the same things over and over again to the same people who all agree to make a change... how about we get on the phone and start calling around to the others who are not as vocal...

I'm done with this for a while... BRUTAL

[avengers]

Not intending to bash ya Mitch, but I agree. Lets get on the phone with the others and get their opinions posted on here!

[waxx]

No drama = No drama...

sure has been quiet without it...

[avengers]

Frank and I were talking about this tonight, and he brought up a good point. We need to decide all of next years details before the keeper deadline this year. If we are going to an auction and will keep people and use a formula to assign costs, I may keep no one, draft young players who can produce next year, and get them for cheaper than they will go in drafts next year. If we go to the auction and keep no one, then making trades involving next years picks is irrelevant all year, as is drafting the young talent this year. In that vein, I'll keep all my productive players this year and go for broke. If we are not moving to an auction next year at all, my keeper/draft strategy for this year could change yet again. I think a definitive decision needs to be made before the keeper deadline (and I think it's been obvious where I stand on the matter)

C'mon guys, get your asses on here and post some opinions on this topic!!!

[waxx]

I have another idea I would like to throw into the mix:

I think by the time we would decide to go auction/sc for this year by starting from scratch - I would feel rushed.

I also think there is just too much that happens in our league from year to year that affects each year to try and make any transition from keeper to auction/sc and some convoluted formula might not be the best option.

I finally think that keeping players this year and playing this year out as normal, only to start from scratch next year would not be a good option (especially for those teams rebuilding).

So here is my new idea - since all owners are prepping for a draft style of league...

... lets throw em all back for this year and hold a draft - one season - one final hoorah to the old school ways of keepr/draft...

... then next year - we go auction/salary cap and start from scratch.

[avengers]

Great idea! I'm in full support of this as an option too.

[mpfg]

I hate to sound apathetic, I'm not, but any of the options mentioned would be fine with me. I think Clay's point regarding how a change will influence keeper/draft strategies for this year is worthy of a decision. Mitch, I think your new idea is fine, but I have little to lose and would like the opportunity to start from scratch (whether by draft or auction). Therefore, I'm pessimistic about the overall support that idea might garner.

[empire]

I agree 100% that any decision needs to be made by keeper declaration day.

I say play out the year and then throwback and auction for next year. People can still trade for rookie picks to rebuild if need be.

No fuckin' way I am willing to do a throwback/draft for this year. That is really retarded and solves absolutely nothing other than punishing those of us who have good teams for 2004.

I must say that I am a bit surprised by all of this. Where were you guys the last few years when we were trying to make this switch?

Although I think that an auction would be a positive step, I also think that changing the rules based on one team and not wanting to play against that team this year is foolish at best. If you want an auction, fine, I agree, let's do it. If you want an auction because you want to dismantle my team, then you are being short-sighted and anti-productive. The comments and suggestions on this topic recently have led me to believe that most people just want to break up one team (happens to be mine). This is like the NBA outlawing the dunk because Wilt was just too damn good-- ridiculous.

Finally, before this gets too far, I would like to remind the Commish that he already made an official ruling on this issue months ago. Owner apathy, vindictiveness, and self-serving changes of mind should not be a reason to revoke a prior sensible decision and make drastic last-minute changes without unanimous owner support.

[waxx]

I think my arguments represented both sides of the fence.. the rebuilding teams and the powerhouse teams...

John is so very right that we have decided on this issue previously... for this year... but if everybody decided to just do it this year... I think the commish should take that into consideration... but that won;t happen anyway...

We also continue to have the same owners voicing their opinions...

I am starting to NOW think that if/when we make a change... it should be a change proposed to happen not this year, not next year, or even the year after...

I am starting to think we should address a change to happen in maybe five years...

bottom line... our league is competitive and without grievance or owner turnover... if indeed most of us will be in the CAFFL for year's to come... then I think we should discuss a change to occur for the start of the
2009 - 2010 season... and decide that presently...

that sounds like such a long way away... but if we decide this presently... for the future... then there is no concern to what we did last year was for this year and what we have this year and how it will affect next year...

also... by then... more owners might be ready for something new and improved...

yes - another idea... but just too much on the line or not on the line to make a change this year... or next... to make a present decision for the most present seasons...

regardless... whenever we make a change.. if we make a change.. somebody will lose out... by making the change in 5 years... we can all plan accordinly as the years pass and whomever that owner is who 'loses out' ... well... it will be less personal and left more up to chance...

[avengers]

Honestly, I don't really give a shit who has a strong team right now. On paper, I still have arguably the 2nd strongest starting lineup in the league. If I was that irritated and felt anyone's team was so unbalanced it was unfair, I could either quit or work harder. I just want to see us go to an auction format. I admittedly haven't been very vocal one way or the other in the past, but to the best of my recollection, we've never voted on it either. I know I'm 1 owner, and I get 1/12 of the vote; I just personally feel strong about making a change, and I'm being vocal about it this time.

It really seems like nothing is going to happen anytime soon...too much apathy or something...*sigh*

[waxx]

Been thinking more about my last post and idea and I really think the league owners should continue to debate a switch... now and forever for all I care cause I love the action and the activity and things such as this to our league.

I do think also that when/if we ever do this... some team will be strong and some will be rebuilding and some owners will have questionable motives given the inherent crappiness of his team or the perceived dominance of another.

I think each year from here on out - the best place ultimatley to discuss and vote on this change will be at the draft.

And part of that vote should be when.. and the when should always be at least 3 years from the current year. So the everybody is aware and can trade and draft rookies and do whatever... fully knowing that a change is looming...

[mpfg]

If you want an auction because you want to dismantle my team, then you are being short-sighted and anti-productive. The comments and suggestions on this topic recently have led me to believe that most people just want to break up one team (happens to be mine).

Owner apathy, vindictiveness, and self-serving changes of mind

If anything, I think most people have been very conscientious of the fact that you would be one of those most affected by any change. I think I've tried to make it clear that any decision would hinge upon everyone weighing in, which hasn't happened, and that if we don't change, that's fine too. And I really hope you're not refering to me with the above tirade. I wonder because I have been a participant in this thread and I'm a bit puzzled as to why you would think making any change is "about you." So, if you'd clarify to whom you're directing the above charges then I'd feel better and we could start resolving the issue so that there wouldn't be any lingering, hidden resentments.